Far Travelers Oral History Project
Interview with Nan Sun
(click here for Word Document Version)

NOTE: This is a draft version, with work still needed to fill in words the transcriber couldn't understand

INTERVIEWER: Daniel Morrow

Q: What were your expectations of the United States ? Had you ever been here before?

NS: No.

Q: So it was your first trip? And what were your expectations before you came?

NS: I would say I didn't have a whole lot of expectations, because I knew materialize-wise it as much better here. But I knew that there would be some kind of unusual experience because at that time I had a steady job, and my family was there, so everything that was going on was very natural. Then I came here, and we didn't have the financial security here and we didn't really know what the future would hold. And we wanted to receive some education, but we had to find a way to pay for the education. And also the classes and everything, I imagined, would be very different, because the language will be different, and the professors, you would have to practice in different ways. It would be totally different than the classes that we took in China . So there were a lot of uncertainties. I don't think I had a whole lot of expectations. We kind of knew what we wanted to achieve, but we didn't know for sure how we should do that. There was a lot of _____.

Q: What was your degree in China ?

NS: In China I got a bachelor's degree in literature and language.

Q: So your expectations coming here was not necessarily to stay for good but to come here and get –

NS: Right. We wanted to experience the culture and experience the language and receive a degree and come here and then _____.

Q: Did you have any idea what field you were going to try to get an education in?

NS: I actually did not have any idea at all. Even though the first class I took here was a computer class, because I thought wherever I would go I had to know how to use a computer. So that is why I took the computer class, because I thought it would be very useful, whichever major I would choose.

Q: Did you have any experience with computers in China ?

NS: No, I never saw a computer. (chuckles)

Q: Really? Even in college?

NS: Even in college I never saw a computer. It was all just a pen and a pencil and paper at that time.

Q: Has that changed?

NS: It has changed a lot. Now, almost all the college students would have a computer.

Q: How did you get over here? Did you come by yourself?

NS: I came by myself.

Q: On the airplane?

NS: On the airplane. It was my first time to fly on an airplane.

Q: Oh, it was? What was that like?

NS: I was airsick all the way. It was very painful.

Q: How long does it take?

NS: I left Shanghai , and then we had to stop in Tokyo . So from Shanghai to Tokyo , and then from Tokyo to Seattle , from Seattle to Minneapolis , and from Minneapolis to Kansas City . It was a long trip. I think on the airplane alone it might have taken maybe thirteen hours.

Q: Did you come directly to Topeka ?

NS: Right.

Q: What was your first impression of the U.S. when you got here?

NS: My first impression was where are the people? (chuckles) Because I didn't see anybody on the street. In China , you know, wherever you went you saw people. And here I saw cars and I saw green grass, but I didn't see people. I kept on wondering where the people were.

Q: You drove in a car from the airport here?

NS: My husband and his host family went to Kansas City to pick me up.

Q: Was it like you had expected?

NS: It was very different. I mean, just a lot of green grass. I came in May and at that time the grass was very, very green. And in China if you wanted to see the grass green and all that you would go to the countryside, but in the city you wouldn't see that much green. It was very _____, and then a lot of cars driving there, but it was extremely quiet. In China the drivers would honk a lot. It was very noisy in the cities.

Q: Is the traffic worse or –

NS: Definitely it's worse in China .

Q: So they honk a lot.

NS: Yeah, they honk a lot. Now, actually, they just forbid people to honk in the crowded city, but they can still do that outside.

Q: Do they have freeways like we do, or highways?

NS: I never saw one before I came here, but now there are freeways everywhere.

Q: When you were growing up, did they have a lot of cars in the city?

NS: The main transportation was actually train, and there was public bus, I mean, public transportation, like city buses. But none of the people I know owns a car. Again, it's changed a lot. Now when we go there, a lot of friends we know own private cars.

Q: Where did you live first after coming?

NS: I stayed with the same host family my husband was staying with, and we stayed there for maybe about four months, and then we decided to find our own apartment.

Q: Did you know any other people besides the host family?

NS: Yeah, we knew quite a few other friends.

Q: Through your husband?

NS: Through my husband, right.

Q: Did you get homesick?

NS: Actually, I was not as homesick when I came here as when I went to high school. I mean, when I went to high school, the first year I was homesick a lot. But since I came here to join my husband, and life was pretty busy, I didn't get – and at that time communication with people in China was very difficult. Now you can just pick up the phone, and it's very reasonable, very economical to make international phone calls now. But at that time it was very expensive. So usually I just wrote letters, and we had to wait a long, long time to get a letter there and get any response from China .

Q: What was the community like? What was your impression of the community here in Topeka ?

NS: I didn't get much sense of community here, because I think people here kind of tended to mind their own business. Like our host family, they lived in _____ neighborhood, and occasionally, for example July the Fourth, they would have a neighborhood party and they would have some type of celebration. But other than that, I think people pretty much mind their own business and they have their own lives, which was very different from how I grew up, because in the neighborhood where I grew up, everybody knew everybody. If I went to somebody's house, maybe I got invited to eat dinner there, which was just fine. You could just drop by very casually, and we would talk about something or play games with other kids, and if they want you to stay for dinner, you would just stay. And otherwise, you would just go home. It was a very friendly environment, and everybody kind of tried to support each other.

Q: And that difference here, did you notice that right off, the difference?

NS: I think I pretty much noticed that right off, because I could tell from interaction among people.

Q: Did you make friends that helped make that transition easier?

NS: We had some students from China and actually the group was pretty reasonable at that time. Now we don't have a whole lot of Chinese students, but at that time there were quite a few Chinese students. Occasionally we would get together and _____, so I think that helped a lot.

Q: So there's fewer now?

NS: There are fewer now, yeah.

Q: Why do you think that is?

NS: I think several reasons. One is, when the Chinese students come here, they tend to go to graduate school, and Washburn does not have a whole lot of graduate programs, so that's one thing. When people come, they go to music school because they offer you more graduate programs. And the other thing is maybe the policy, the government policy. Since 9/11 the U.S. government doesn't want to issue too many visas to people in _____ countries.

Q: So you've noticed a drop in just the last few years?

NS: Right. Because Washburn had a lot of international students, especially in our computer science program. When I was teaching two years ago, half of the class would be international students. Now you don't see much at all.

Q: I wasn't aware of that. Have you been back home?

NS: Yeah, we go back there often.

Q: When you're back home and discuss that, is that a topic of discussion back there?

NS: Back there, there have been tremendous changes back in China , and life is much better there. I mean, material life is much better. So it means maybe not everybody are that eager to go to a different country to study anymore, because they feel comfortable with what they have and they are pretty complete over there.

Q: It isn't as beneficial for them to come over here – they don't see it that way – as it was maybe ten years ago.

NS: Right. Ten years ago there was a huge improvement in life. Everybody had a lot of opportunities. This also means, actually, financially, because at that time people made a lot more money here than over there. _____, but they have a lot of changes over there, so the difference is not that huge anymore.

Q: Like you say, the colleges all now have modern technology, whereas before they didn't.

NS: Right.

Q: So there isn't a big difference in the education now that you would get, between the two.

NS: I think the gap probably might be shrinking.

Q: What do you see as the main difference in the two types of education? What's the strengths and weaknesses of the two different ones?

NS: In China I think the education is for the elite class. It's for the best students. I mean, ever since I went to elementary school, all the way to college, the teachers all _____ around those students who did very well. I think here the education is for the majority of the population, so they do not focus on the elite. They do not have the time maybe to focus on the low performers, but they try to address the issues that the majority of the students have. I think that's the difference. The focus is different. I think from the focus you can see the advantages and differences.

Q: Of both types?

NS: Right, of both types.

Q: And what are those –

NS: Like the better performers in China will be able to achieve a lot because they get all the resources they have. But the mediocre, the low performers. It's like college, it's like the opportunity to go to college. If they were just the mediocres or a lot of the low performers, they couldn't even get the opportunity to go to college. _____.

Q: What did you like best when you first arrived?

NS: I liked the air conditioner. (laughs) I had a lot of skin problems back in China every time when it was summer. My skin couldn't tolerate the heat, so I would have skin rash. But once I was here, that problem disappeared. So I think I like the air conditioner the best.

Q: Is that still what you like the best?

NS: It's different now because there, almost every room has air conditioning now.

Q: What did you like least at first when you came?

NS: The environment is good. I think the language probably was kind of challenging. Talking to somebody was difficult.

Q: And has that changed? It obviously has.

NS: That has changed to a certain degree, I think. I think I feel comfortable talking about certain topics, but not everything.

Q: What do you like least now?

NS: I don't now. I think I'm pretty satisfied with what I have now. We have been very lucky. Everybody's healthy, and I have a nice job. I think I'm pretty content.

Q: What did you find were the most significant differences between the two cultures?

NS: Maybe the level of – the way to be polite. In China when people comment on, for example, you're dressed kind of nicely, you would say, "Oh, no, my dress is not nice." It's a way to be kind of polite. So when people talk about something nicely about you, you would say, "No, no, no." That's our way to kind of – to be polite. And here, it's different. If people comment on your dress, say your dress is nice, you say, "Oh, thank you." Basically, you acknowledge their comment. So I think that part is very different. And it could take somebody a long time to kind of eventually get used to it.

Q: What did you miss most about your home in China ?

NS: I guess the food is one, the food is very different. In my hometown, we have vegetables all year round. We have all kinds of fruit all year round. Here, I think, the food and the fruit are pretty much static. Over there, depending on the season, you have different types of fruit. Here, of course, you get grapes maybe all year round. You can even get watermelon all year round. But I think the variety is not there.

Q: And the food, how did you find the diet, and did it take you a while to adjust to it?

NS: It took me a long time to adjust to American food. In China people didn't eat a whole lot of raw vegetables, so for example, like even tomatoes, people would cook tomatoes into a tomato soup, and then they would just eat the soup. Cucumbers, they would cook the cucumbers, or they would pickle the cucumbers. So people usually don't eat a whole lot of raw vegetables. So that was something it took me a long time to get used to. I mean, I didn't want to eat no raw vegetables. (laughs) And it was not tasty at all unless you would put _____. I didn't eat salad for a long, long time, but now I like it.

Q: So that has changed.

NS: Yes. But we still don't eat a whole lot of, like, hamburgers, sandwiches. I mean, we can eat those, but it's not something we would like to have every day.

Q: Is it different with your son? Does your son have different taste than you?

NS: My son, I think he likes Chinese food, because the evening meals are basically all Chinese food, and then he eats lunch at school, so he gets American flavor. We don't encourage fast food consumption, so we have never taken him to restaurants like McDonald's. We'll take him to McFarlands, that type of more formal restaurant, but not McDonalds. (chuckles)

Q: Was salad the hardest thing for you to adjust to in food?

NS: Salad was pretty hard, and also cheese was very hard. Even now I don't – I mean, I can live without cheese.

Q: And cheese isn't something used in China ?

NS: I think it's maybe used in a certain part of China , but not in the part I grew up.

Q: In general, how hard did you find the transition from one culture to another? Did you find it very hard?

NS: I think it was okay, because before I came here I learned the language, I read a lot about the country and the culture and the people. I think that the education background I have helped with the transition.

Q: In your literature degree, did you read literature from America , or not?

NS: Yeah, we read literature from America , from Australia , from Canada . I mean, a lot of English-speaking countries.

Q: So you had some background in literature and in –

NS: Right. And also we learned history, like Chinese history and world history, and when I was taking classes in college, I think there was North American history as well.

Q: So you had quite a bit of foreknowledge before you came.

NS: Right.

Q: Your impression of the American culture that you first held when you first got here, how has that changed between now and then?

NS: Initially, when people did something, I just thought that they were so kind or so nice or so polite, but gradually I think I kind of realized sometimes it's just a habit, or sometimes it's a formality. When you run into somebody on the street, you would just automatically say hi when you kind of pass a person. Initially, I thought that was very interesting. I thought people were just so _____, they would say hi to everybody they saw. But I kind of feel now it's just a habit. When you see somebody and just say hi, it doesn't really mean that. You want to show kindness to the person, it's just something you do. I don't know whether it's true or not, but that's how I feel.

Q: In China , if you're walking down the street, would you say hi to everybody?

NS: Well, if you say hi, you won't say hi all the time. Everybody's so busy, and too many people.

Q: So that was quite a bit of difference in the culture.

NS: Right.

Q: Did you feel accepted when you came?

NS: I think that would be kind of hard, because it's kind of depending on the people you meet. Some people would be more receptive. But at that time, the language probably was broken. Because of the _____ information you had, you really couldn't express yourself too well. I don't know how people kind of looked at me, but I imagine I was kind of different. But now I'm – since we have lived here for a long time, language gets better, and then you watch the same news, same games, and you're pretty much in the same activities, so there is more common ground.

Q: So you feel more accepted now?

NS: Right.

Q: Do you feel you were treated well by people?

NS: I think so. Our host family helped us out a lot. They actually didn't really do anything for us, but they did a lot for us.

Q: Did you ever have any problems where you felt you were treated badly?

NS: Not really. I think the expressions in yourself _____. Sometimes you just kind of be very quiet. You didn't say much in social situations.

Q: Tell me about your employment and your education after you came, how you got your education.

NS: Okay. I took a class in the fall 1991. There was a computer class, and I did really well in that class, so that kind of built my confidence in this area. So I was thinking that I would take more computer classes. Because of financial problems, I couldn't take classes the following semester, but I did continue. I just waited for one semester and then I continued.

The second computer class I was taking was taught by a professor in the computer science department at Washburn, and he actually passed away already, but he gave me really a nice impression. He was very strict, very rigid, and I remember he'd give us paper with little boxes, and when we wrote our programs, we had to follow him strictly, like which row and which column. You had to write which type of code, and if you were just one box off, he would take a lot of points off your assignment. But he was very kind, very nice. Every time you had a question he was very happy to help you out. So I did well in that class.

He was on the scholarship committee, and they kind of picked out who had the potential to do well in other classes, so I got a departmental scholarship based on his recommendation. And as I moved on in other classes, I did pretty well, so I started to get university scholarships, just a lot of financial assistance. So that helped me with my education at Washburn.

I got a bachelor's degree in computer science at Washburn, and after I graduated I started to look for a job. I found a job with a local company here, and I worked there for several years before I found out I wanted to go further. So I was working on the job, and at the same time I started my graduate program at K State. I got my master's degree from K State. And for that company, _____, advanced degrees because of what they did. At that time Washburn was looking for an instructor, and I applied for the job and fortunately I got the job.

Q: And when was that?

NS: I came to Washburn four years ago.

Q: Why have you decided to stay in Kansas ?

NS: I think the turning point was graduation and that I was able to find a job right away. I graduated in December and I started to work in January. And once you had a steady job, you kind of feel like you wanted to have _____ because life was very uncertain for a long time, so you kind of wanted to settle down and see how things would go. I think graduation and finding a job was the turning point and since we were kind of looking forward to settling down, and that kind of made us _____.

Q: You had your son while you were going to college?

NS: We waited for a long time to have our son. We were married in 1990 and our son was born in 1999. We didn't want to have a kid while we were struggling through college and a new environment, because we thought we wouldn't be able to provide the things he needed to grow up right. Actually, when we had him, our lives were pretty stable.

Q: How's school been for him? Has he started school?

NS: He's in the first grade, and he had one year of kindergarten at the _____ school, and he really enjoys school.

Q: When you look at it, what's the most significant change between your life in China and here? Since you've been here, what's the most significant change that's occurred?

NS: I think the opportunities the U.S. has offered to us. Because over there, like me, I was – the major I was in in college was literature and language. And even if I would have wanted to go for a computer science degree, I wouldn't have the opportunity to do that. But here, as long as you wanted to do something, and as long as you put effort, as long as you kind of manage your life to be focused on the goal, I think you will be able to achieve the goal you set. When I _____ here, it was pretty straightforward. Money was not a problem, but the _____ and the professors, they were all kind of friendly. So I think the opportunities here, and you can choose to go to which college, you choose to find out what major you want to go for. And even when you decide to look for jobs, I think people were pretty fair and they didn't say you are not a native speaker, so we don't want to hire you. I never encountered that type of situation here.

Q: We talked a little bit about the problems with students coming over. Do you feel that the situation has changed for new immigrants since you came? And if so, how?

NS: I think because of the security level and the foreign policy the U.S. government has is not friendly to students who want to come here to study. One thing is when, for example, students want to get into research areas, the government has _____ that they may get into certain scientific projects. I know like some Chinese students, they are pretty good in science, so if they want to get into those prestigious research areas in the U.S., the government may not kind of like the idea. So I think _____ is a turning point for the foreign policy.

Q: If you had to give one example of how your life has changed by coming to the United States , what would it be?

NS: It's my education and my career, I would say. Because I totally changed my major. I mean, I was in the arts and not in science. And I think only here you get the opportunity to do that. Because in China there's no way for students to major in arts to change and to be in science.

Q: And did you choose to go into arts? How did you go that way?

NS: In China , at least when I was in high school, they wanted to get the students to choose whether they wanted to major in arts or science on the second year of high school. I think the high school teachers had a lot of influence on this, because we were so young. I mean, we didn't really know what we wanted to do. A teacher actually kind of talked to me, so I guess because of that I went into the arts in the second year of high school. And from there, there was just one path.

Q: Once you're on that you can't change it?

NS: I don't know whether it's possible change now. I mean, at that time it was not possible because the classes _____. Like science students, there was a lot of men, physics, chemistry, all of those. And then regarding to art, they would geography or take history or different _____ of English and Chinese, politics. So the population was very different.

Q: So how often do you go back?

NS: Recently we have been going back almost every summer, so once a year almost.

Q: And what's the most significant changes you've noticed?

NS: The changes – the housing, the overall city environment. I was in my hometown for more than twenty years, but when I go there now I only recognize certain parts of it. There have been so much new development, and I don't really know those new areas. Even the place where my mother lives now, I mean, I don't really know that area.

Q: Do you notice a difference in the political atmosphere?

NS: Now, people don't seem to care about politics anymore. They kind of _____ to their own well-being. They mind their own business. They are not very government- or politics-oriented.

Q: Since you were in college – you graduated college, right? when there was such a traumatic event. Is it a big difference then than now.

NS: I think in certain aspects the country, the area, it's much better. I mean, it's much cleaner and the housing is really nice. Like my mother, she lives in a four-bedroom apartment, and it's all – the interior, it's basically – it's this kind of a thing, like here. Every room has its window and it's air conditioned, and that would be something you wouldn't dream of at all ten years ago. So there have been a lot of improvements.

Q: Have you ever considered moving back?

NS: Not in the near future, because I think education is very demanding on kids in China , and for my son's sake, we want him to receive elementary _____ education here, because we feel that – I mean, when we went through the Chinese education system, it was very competitive, it was very, very rigid. And here, I think the kids tend to be exposed to a lot of areas and they have the opportunities to develop their own interests and kind of decide eventually what they would like to do. And if they choose what they would like to do, then they would be able to do that extremely well. But in China , a lot of times, a lot of things are set for you. I mean, if you cannot pass, for example, the high school entrance exam, you cannot go to high school. And what can you do if you don't have a high school diploma? And if you cannot pass, you cannot score enough to go to college, you have no opportunity to go to college. So you have to follow that education model to be successful. Sometimes, even if you choose to do something, it may not be good for you. And if it's not good for you then – I mean, even if it may be something you really want to do, it doesn't make sense to do that. I think it's probably a lot of difficulties.

Q: Are there family traditions that you've continued over here? That you brought over here and passed on to your family? Like holidays or foods or anything like that?

NS: We usually celebrate some Chinese holidays. For example, Chinese New Year. In China on the New Year's Eve, the parents will put little red pockets with money inside under the pillows of the kids. So when they wake up the next morning, they will see that and they will open that. It's kind of like a tradition a lot of people today keep. And we do the same here for our kids. So I think we do celebrate, to a certain degree, the major holidays from China . But the difficulty is, many times the atmosphere is not here. And also, it may not be on a weekend. So if the Chinese New Year is on Tuesday and you have to work, and you go home, it's just like another day.

Q: If you had it to do all over again, would you make the same decision?

NS: I think we – I would say – well, there are two sides. One is, I think, as a individual I have gained a lot. I got an education, and my job is nice, and my kid will be growing up in a very nice environment. But on the other side, for example, my brother passed away and I was not there. And my father passed away and I was not there. So I think I miss a lot. And also, the relationship I think between, for example, my mother and me and maybe my brother and me, even though we go there very often, sometimes you feel kind of disconnected because you are not with them all the time. And the relationship, for example, between my mother and my son, I mean they are like strangers. Even though I call her every week, I call my mother every week, still, the distance is there.

So I think the relationship would be much better, if we would be there to experience the difficulties they had. So I would say it's kind of challenging. We gain some, but we lose some at the same time. So it's beneficial, I think, for me as an individual, but if I look at my family, like my mother and my father, my brothers, I'm sure that my mother would like me to be there with her. And my brother, when he was doing his chemotherapy, I'm sure he would have preferred to have me there as well.

Q: What advice would you give to a new immigrant or someone thinking about coming to the United States ?

NS: China now is very different from China then. When we came here, we didn't have a whole lot of expectations. I mean, I was working as hard, but the salary I made was kind of minimum compared to what people are making nowadays. But now, it's different, because there, the wage, the salary has been going up tremendously. And the living condition has changed a lot. So I think people tend to have much higher expectations when they come here. Sometimes they feel maybe there's gold everywhere in this country, so as long as they come here, without putting any effort, they can just pick up the gold on the ground and they will be rich in an instant. I mean, we all know that's not true. I think they need to be more realistic. And I think wherever you go you have to put some effort in order to achieve whatever you want to do. I don't think there's any free lunch or free money anywhere, even in the U.S.

Q: You've been very gracious with your time. Is there anything you would like to add to the interview that we've missed, or something you would like to say?

NS: I think the U.S. is a great country. It is a country full of opportunity and potential. So I feel very lucky to come here, and that has changed my life completely. For some things it's good, I think. For some things, just like I said, my family has put up with a lot of things because of my absence. But I think overall it's a very nice experience. I'm sure I'm a very different person from the person I was in '91, before I came. I feel pretty grateful, I would say, for the opportunities I got.

Q: Okay. Well, I think that concludes this interview. Thank you very much for sharing your story.

NS: Thank you.

END OF INTERVIEW